Well said. Thanks.

I would like to point out that it seems to me we often fnd in Scripture most anything we want to support a position or belief we already have. For example Kern frequently focuses on suffering as a part of the Christian life and reminds us of that whenever we post on something that doens’t include suffering.

We can marinate our mind on Scriptures relating to suffering or we can do the same on other topics from health to abundance to fidelity, to justice or mercy, etc. Whatever we focus most on is what we end up preaching to others and often insisting they conform to. When in fact the counsel of God far exceeds our ability to fully grasp and thus we all have a piece to the puzzle. Let us remember that our piece doesn’t displace the other pieces we all have. It fits in with them.

Another thing has been about broadening the context of Romans 8:32 which says, “For God who spared not His own Son but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?” First of all, let’s take the verse at face value. Secondly, indeed look at the context but it does not diminish its breadth of depth. Thirdly, if you want to talk about context, then look at that verse in the context of the whole book and then look at the book of Romans in the context of the whole New Testament and then look at the whole New Testament in the context of all of Scripture and then if you can, look at it in the context of God’s manifestation of Himself and His will in all of creation. Then come back and tell me about context.

Furthermore my brother says “Some Christains will not receive abundance if we mean material things” and while that may be true, I believe most will never receive abundance in our natural lives if we exclude material things.

Abundance in natural, material things is no sin. Who are we to determine at what income level our fellow neighbor should live? Who are we to say that we should all live at wartime levels? It has never been all about material abundance but neither is that excluded. If owning things is a sin, then God is the biggest sinner because He owns it all. This concept of dualism has pervaded the church where things that are “spirit” are good but things that are material are somehow not. What? And make God a liar? He declared all things He made as good. Who are we to say otherwise?

We are to shun coveting not abundance. We are to shun greed, not plenty. We are to shun lust, not lush provision if God provides.

In chapter 5 of Romans Paul sums up with verse 1, “Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Then he opens the reality of suffering and death for the justified %u2013 and anticipates the huge emphasis on suffering in chapter 8. Verse 3 tells us why we can rejoice in tribulation %u2013 it leads to patience and approvedness and hope.

Then against the backdrop of this tribulation he argues exactly the same way he does in chapter 8 %u2013 from the greater to the lesser %u2013 if God can do a hard thing, he can do an easy thing. Recall in Romans 8:32 he says, “He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all [the hard thing], how shall he not with him freely give us all things [the easy thing]?” That%u2019s exactly the way Paul argues here in Romans 5:9, “Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood [that%u2019s the hard thing], much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God [that%u2019s the easy thing].” Same kind of argument in verse 10: “For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son [that%u2019s the hard thing], much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life [that%u2019s the easy thing].”

The point is our hope and security in the face of suffering and death, just like it is in Romans 8. Normal Christianity is tribulation. “Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God” (Acts 14:22). Don%u2019t ever forget that the mighty and merciful message of Romans is put forth in the context of expected suffering.

While it is often sexual in nature, it doesn’t have to be. It can be a thought or action that is less then honorable.

Probably the greatest harm of impurity is the damage to the relationship taht we have with God. Michael is correct in stating that there is guilt and shame. Impurity inhibits us from having the close intimate relationship with God that he so desires to have with us.

Many of the sufferings that Kern speaks of are related to the battle in our mind of right vs. wrong, pure vs. impure. Suffering doesn’t have to mean doing without, it can mean the battle to not succomb to the allure of our culture and a sinful world.

Christ has given us a new heart. We need to focus on that vistory and allow God to strengthen and refine it.

I frequently mention suffering because when it comes and it will come, if our faith is not grounded and deep, we will fall away. No matter how much we pray for abundance not every Christian will receive it or if they do we may lose it.

If you look at the whole book of Romans, Paul talks a lot about suffering.

Normal Christianity is tribulation. “Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God” (Acts 14:22). Don%u2019t ever forget that the mighty and merciful message of Romans is put forth in the context of expected suffering.

Paul writes the letter to the Roman church to mobilize their support for his mission to Spain. In Romans 15:24 he writes, “I hope to see you in passing as I go to Spain, and to be helped on my journey there by you.” He has never been to Rome and has never met most of these Christians. So he lays out his gospel for them to see in these 16 chapters.

Oh that all our missionaries would know the book of Romans and preach the book of Romans. And Oh that those of us who send would know the book of Romans and live the book of Romans so that we would send missionaries the way Paul wanted to be sent and supported from Rome to Spain. The mighty and merciful message of this book will make rich Americans strip down to a more wartime lifestyle and pour their resources into the cause of the gospel. And the mighty and merciful message of this book, in the mouths of suffering missionaries, will break the powers of darkness and plant the Church of Christ in the hardest places.

In chapter 5 Paul sums up with verse 1, “Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Then he opens the reality of suffering and death for the justified %u2013 and anticipates the huge emphasis on suffering in chapter 8. Verse 3 tells us why we can rejoice in tribulation %u2013 it leads to patience and approvedness and hope.

Then against the backdrop of this tribulation he argues exactly the same way he does in chapter 8 %u2013 from the greater to the lesser %u2013 if God can do a hard thing, he can do an easy thing. Recall in Romans 8:32 he says, “He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all [the hard thing], how shall he not with him freely give us all things [the easy thing]?” That%u2019s exactly the way Paul argues here in Romans 5:9, “Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood [that%u2019s the hard thing], much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God [that%u2019s the easy thing].” Same kind of argument in verse 10: “For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son [that%u2019s the hard thing], much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life [that%u2019s the easy thing].”

The point is our hope and security in the face of suffering and death, just like it is in Romans 8. Normal Christianity is tribulation. “Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God” (Acts 14:22). Don%u2019t ever forget that the mighty and merciful message of Romans is put forth in the context of expected suffering.

And yes all God’s word is truth but it also does not contradict itself. Prosper does not always and I believe most of the time, mean materialistic. He may bless us with good health, Godly children, Godly wife and other ways. You need to always ask why is God blessing me, it is for one reason, so we can bless others. If we stop doing that, He will stop blessing us.