Thanks for the kind comments. As for your question, I would agree with your comment on celebrity, wealth, diligence and success. Also poor can influence but less likely. More the exception, not the rule. By the way, Mother Theresa had great wealth at her disposal but used it for the poor. St. Francis of Assisi was famous because he was quite wealthy but gave it up to live among the poor.

First of all, Kern mentioned the Puritans. I had to re-read what he said twice because I was shocked at the way he referenced them. From my understanding of history, the Puritans took on an enormous amount of risk, obtained financing to relocate to an entirely different continent, and their work ethic created what became arguably the single most prosperous economy in the history of the world. The Puritans are a great example to use in this discussion, but not because of poverty — quite the opposite. In fact, they went from being completely without influence in their oppressive homeland to having the authority to establish their civilization the way they saw fit. That is, my friend, both wealth AND influence.

Secondly, anyone who cannot see the correlation between wealth and influence is either ignorant or just plain naive.

Thirdly, we are clearly instructed in scripture that we must guard against an undue desire for riches. No question about this. But did you ever notice that we are also instructed against having an undue desire for many other things? Did God mean, for example, that we must avoid sex because we might develop an undue desire for it? Not at all. He merely instructed us that there is a proper context for it (the marriage relationship) and that the expression of the desire must be subject to Godliness and purity. We must not be controlled by it, but rather be in charge over it.

Somehow within the body of Christ, we have confused the notion that we are to bring ungodly desires into subjection with the notion that we must “not touch.” This is a demonic lie from the pit of hell. If any of us has an uncontrollable desire for money, we are to repent!

Also, did you ever notice that usually the people who have the biggest problem with desiring money are the ones who DON’T have enough of it?

God clearly intends for us to expand and advance His Kingdom in this earth. For us to do so, finances are a REQUIREMENT. God is not so cruel as to make something which we MUST HAVE something that is “off limits.”

The heated debate over this question shows just how desperately we need to renew our minds according to the Word of God, and be freed from the religious “poverty = piety” garbage that the Church has propagated for centuries.

We must all be willing to subject our ideas and our thinking to the truth of the Word of God. Thank you, Michael, for helping us to do this.

No forgiveness required friend. I know you mean well, as do I. To answer your question, what I meant that as a general rule, a principle if you will, people don’t value the advice of the poor. Never have. Never will. I in know way suggest that anyone should find fulfillment in riches. How dire. How empty! Christ is my all in all and the One who fills me with unspeakable, unsearchable riches in Him. I will never plumb the depths of what He has deposited in me by His Spirit or what He has made available to me by the deposit of His Spirit in me. Watch for my email today for my of my comments.

Without knowing the situation, it is difficult to say why you haven’t succeeded in sales. You may not be well suited for it. You may be doing the wrong things. You may not be very diligent. You may be diligent but not skilled. I can’t tell. What I would urge you to do, is quickly assess what it is you do well and find an opportunity to do that asap. Do it with excellence and do it with diligence and over time you will pull out of the slump you are in. You might seek a career counselor out as well.

To your point about celebrities. There are almost no celebrities who are not also wealthy, (rich). And being at peace is for me a principal goal, worthy of the highest pursuit. Blessings.

Had a sneaking suspicion we might hear from you on this one. Good morning my brother! I do appreciate your grasp of the Word and devotion to Christ. It is good to be on the same team with you (Team Jesus).

I have a problem with your presupposition Kern, not your argument. You say, “then to live as though we had all the same values as the world would betray him”. I say, of course! Who would argue that? You are absolutely correct. But that is not the point I am making, nor the teaching I am espousing.

You continue on to make an argument against a position we are not staking out. I could go point by point over every thing you have said, some of which is not factual, but your premise is wrong, so your argument is misguided.

May I suggest that in your next post, you consider the words of Saint Francis of Assisi who said, “Seek first to understand, then to be understood.” By that I mean, instead of arguing against a point I am not making, ask for clarification or understanding or definition on some statement I am saying. In other words, try to understand what I we are posting here instead of being quick to defend something that we are not assailing. It may take me some time to respond as I have many responsibilities, but I would welcome the input from other readers as well. Blessings.

If we are exiles and refugees here on earth 1 Peter 2:11, and if our citizenship is in heaven Phillippians 3:20, and if nothing cna separate us from the love of Christ Romans 8:35, and His steadfast love is better than live Psalm 63:3, and if all hardship is working for us in eternal glory 2 Corithians 4:17, then we will count everything as rubbish in comparison with Christ Phillipians 3:7-8, We will “joyfully except the plundering of our property” for the sake of unpopular acts of mercy Hebrews 10:34, We will choose “rather to be mistreated with the people of of God than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin” and we will count : the reproach of Christ greater wealth than the treasures of Egypt” Hebrews 11:25-26

No it is not wrong to have money or things and no I am not saying that everyone should give everything away. I am saying that Jesus loves faith-filled risk for the glory of God. I don’t how laws to give you concerning the perticulars of how to spend your money, any more than Jesus did. I just want to say that all Christians should use money and possessions to show that God, not possessions is our treasure. Our lives must look as if we use our possessions to make people gald in God, especially the needy.

Both pain and pleasure are laced with poison, ready to kill us withthe deseases of pride or despair. We must keep “alert” and I need that warning every day.