Sons in the Marketplace – No More Pie in the Sky
October 16th, 2007 | Michael Q. Pink
“Thus says the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have held, to subdue nations before him; and I will (1) loose the armor of kings,(2) to open before him the two-leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; (3) I will go before you, and (4) make the crooked places straight: (5) I will break in pieces the gates of bronze, and (6) cut asunder the bars of iron: And (7) I will give you the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that I, the LORD, who call you by your name, am the God of Israel.” (Isa 45:1-3)
God takes Cyrus (his anointed) by the hand to subdue nations and He promises seven things to Cyrus. We will look at all of them over time, but I want to draw you to something significant. We are the anointed of Christ. (2 Cor 1:21) We are called to the marketplace, but not as mere merchants or fatherless ones who must fend for themselves and operate on the world’s terms. Regardless of our gender we are called to something higher… We are called to be sons in the marketplace, and that gives us a distinct advantage, for a higher purpose.
Cyrus walked in Psalm 149 which is a promise to the “godly ones” or “saints” to, “…execute vengeance upon the nations, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute upon them the judgment written: this honor have all his saints.” We, as godly ones have this same honor to walk in this high level of authority. This is not some symbolic promise that has no tangible fulfillment, but it takes sons in the marketplace, (mature believers) who know they are anointed, to walk this out whether it is in the political arena or the marketplace in general.
The promise to Cyrus wasn’t “pie in the sky” and neither is it to us. Cyrus saw the promise of subduing the nations as a literal calling and he marched boldly into history binding the kings and their nobles. He subdued the Arabians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Bactrians, Cappodcians, Carians, Cilicians, Indians, Lydians, Maryandines, Paphloagonians, Phoenicians, Phrygians, Sacians, Syrians and many other nations. He also had a dominion over the Asiatics, Greeks, Cyprians, and the Egyptians . . . He vanquished, according to Herodotus, whatever country he invaded. As the Lord’s anointed, his calling wasn’t “pie in the sky,” it was “pie on the plate!”
I will develop in consequent blogs what it means for us to be sons in the marketplace and put some pie on our plates. Anyone hungry?
Don’t miss Special Guest Kent Humphreys today at 2PM (US Eastern Time) in the ChristianBusinessDaily.com teleseminar series. Kent has some exciting things to say about what God is up to in the marketplace. As always, this event is FREE for members of the Insider program, or you can click here to purchase access to this powerful call on a one-time basis.
October 16th, 2007 at 6:21 am
This is a very much needed teaching in the body of Christ today as we are never going to fulfill the purpose of the kingdom if we are not in the market place and affecting it with the righteousness of our God and ultimately use the resources needed so the “kingdom can come”.
October 16th, 2007 at 6:30 am
expediez moi les documents en francais
October 16th, 2007 at 6:34 am
Absolute nonsense! Through Christ nobody is called as a son in the marketplace. The sons of God has died to this world and is alive in Christ Jesus forevermore. Please do not use the name of the Lord for selfish gain. But in humility ask the Lord to open your eyes. Seek the truth of Jesus Christ.
(1Ti 6:3) If anyone teaches false doctrine and refuses to agree with the healthy words of our Lord Jesus Christ and godly teaching,
(1Ti 6:4) he is a conceited person and does not understand anything. He has an unhealthy craving for arguments and debates. This produces jealousy, rivalry, slander, evil suspicions,
(1Ti 6:5) and incessant conflict between people who are depraved in mind and deprived of truth. They think that godliness is a way to make a profit.
(1Ti 6:6) Of course, godliness with contentment does bring a great profit.
(1Ti 6:7) For we did not bring anything into the world, and surely we cannot take anything out of it.
(1Ti 6:8) So as long as we have food and clothes, we will be satisfied with these.
(1Ti 6:9) But people who want to get rich keep toppling into temptation and are trapped by many stupid and harmful desires that plunge them into destruction and ruin.
(1Ti 6:10) For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, in their eagerness to get rich, have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with much pain.
(1Ti 6:11) But you, man of God, must flee from all these things. Instead, you must pursue righteousness, godliness, faithfulness, love, endurance, and gentleness.
October 16th, 2007 at 6:52 am
The term used “sons in the marketplace” is neither Biblical nor can it be extrapolated from the Bible.
The whole idea will be swallowed by gullible and undiscerning people.
October 16th, 2007 at 7:19 am
I am glad to find a site for this kind of support to those of us who deal in the market place. we do battle wither we like it or not (wickedness in high places as the bible put’s it) . Yes i am hungry for more of what thr Lord has for us all.
October 16th, 2007 at 7:41 am
I count this post as a rhema word from the Lord today. And I am convinced that as the days go on more and more Your burden for this type of anointing upon the people of GOd will increase . I am asking Youu to Pray for those precious one’s that will walk in this as there must be a paradighm shift for them to operate at this level of faith.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:15 am
Dear Pieter;
Thank you for taking the time to add your perspective. I am sure it will add to the liveliness of the discussion. First of all you suppose that we are using the name of the Lord for selfish gain. Read the blog again s-l-o-w-l-y
I speak of a higher purpose for succeeding in the marketplace. It is not about personal enrichment for selfish motivations at all. Perhaps your heart betrays you?
The sons of God have died to the this world but they still live in it, and now they can, if God calls them so, make the world serve a higher purpose. For example, where once I wanted wealth to heap it upon myself, now I am actively raising $100 million dollars to start a Christian Business College to train men and women around the world how to function in business without being taken captive by the lusts thereof and use those resources in a manner that glorifies God. This college will be established not only in the USA but in every country God opens for us. There will be many poor nations who will receive a valuable education without charge, being subsidized through the benevolence of those who have dedicated both their talent and resources to the King. Those benevolent people are some of the sons I speak of who derive their sustenance from the marketplace and will give of themselves and their resources despite being harshly criticized by those who in the name of the love of God, stone them.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:26 am
Dear Joseph Carneiro;
Thank you for your thoughtful post. I am grateful that you can settle this question for all of us so succinctly. You are correct in stating that the term “sons in the marketplace” appears nowhere in Scripture, but neither does your name and I presume you are very real and born of God.
Actually the term “market” or “marketplace” appears in Scripture numerous times as does the term “sons”. Sanctified common sense suggests that on occasion some of those sons might acutally go into the marketplace. Some even work there. Those who don’t depend on those of us who do to be benevolent and keep them up even while being despised by them.
Romans 8:14 says “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.” Now of course this isn’t to all Christians, but rather to those who are led by the Spirit. Those mature ones who by reason of use, have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil (Heb 5:14).
My supposition is that God has many sons and some of them actually are called to the marketplace instead of the clergy. Read Hebrews 11 again and look at what has been called “The Hall of Faith” where it lists the great heroes of the faith. How many of them were professional clergy? ONE. The rest were “sons in the marketplace”.
Hope that helps my brother.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:33 am
Dear djaman datcha isaac;
Je parle francais un petit peu
Sorry
October 16th, 2007 at 9:02 am
This is very timely as it clarifies for many their “roles” and the fact that many are called to “marketplace ministry” for such a time as this and not just “pulpit” ministry. The mantles God’s anointed wear today are going to cross over into both arenas with greater ease and relevance in brining millions into the kingdom. I know I wear such a mantle for the music and publishing industry and the Lord has supernaturally placed me in Nashville for this reason.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:16 am
I believe we have always been called to “market place” ministry, but have not acted on it as a body. In these last days God is opening our eyes to many things. I also believe this verse is key in these end times: Romans 8:19
For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. NKJV
October 16th, 2007 at 9:35 am
I agree, many are called to the marketplace, and if they do not obey their calling, they are missing God! Years ago a leader in my church at the time told me he thought I was called outside of the church. At the time I wasn’t very happy about that (the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit!), I have now come to see that I am called there. This has also been confirmed to me prophetically, including someone who does not know me from a hole in the ground.
If I am remember correctly, Jesus said to go into ALL the world and make disciples and that includes HIM SENDING people into the marketplace. How else will these folks be reached if not by those who have godly character AND are competent in what they do? If you are not competent in the marketplace, you are largely not listened to. True, God can miraculously do stuff through people who are unschooled, but to gain entrance to the courts of kings, you must be skilled in your labor - Proverbs!
Blessings,
Dennis
October 16th, 2007 at 10:00 am
Who ministered in the market place? Jesus Christ. He did not serve from pulpits. Who else? All the disciples. Who says that the five fold ministry must serve from the pulpit or church for that matter?
Why did David take a census of the population? God is able beyond our understanding to accomplish what He predestined. We do not need to take census of anything.
There is no reason why you need to get money to do Gods work. He is Lord of our hearts. When His favour is upon you, then He shall open the door. But know this, money is not His way. He is the miracle worker and we are the money workers. We accomplish through money and call it a miracle. He uses our faith and turns it into a miracle. Praise the Lord! Hallelujah! Praise the King!
The prince or this world showed the Lord all the cities of the world because it was his to give. Money is his currency. Everything that money can buy, is his currency. He had the right to offer it to the Lord. Gods currency is faith. By faith Abraham acted on the promise and forsook all he had. By faith Moses led Israel out. Without faith it is impossible to please God. By faith we are saved. By faith we are healed. By faith we are restored. By faith Jesus fed the poor. By faith Paul brought the Gospel to the Gentiles. By faith we will be with Jesus forever and ever.
The antithesis of faith is money. By money we can send out missionaries. By money we can be healed. By money we can do evangelization. We can buy food. We can feed the poor. We can build houses and buy security with money. The root of all evil is money. Money replaces faith. You cannot serve God and mammon. Where your heart is, that is where your treasure is. That is why Jesus did not tell Peter and John to grow the fishing business and Matthew to expand the tax collecting business. He had no need of money. That is why He said to the rich man to give everything he had to the poor.
It is by faith that you will walk in the fullness that God has for you. By faith the Lord will do mighty signs and wonders in you and through you. By faith we will inherit the promise to enter into His fullness.
When the Spirit of the Lord moved tangibly in the first church, they had all things in common and looked after each other. The body took care of all its different parts. There was no shortage because the body of Christ looked after its own. IF you see your brother suffer and you turn your back on him, then the love of Christ is not in you. All needs, physical and spiritual were looked after. They even sold all they had and brought it to the disciples who appointed overseers to make sure that all needs were taken care of daily. And there were added daily to their number and many signs and wonders took place. And the fear of the Lord was upon them.
When there is unity in brotherly love, then the Spirit of God, the miracle working Spirit, is released and many signs and wonders take place. The Glory of the Lord is seen and He is above all, in all, through all. His majesty is evident for all to see, to touch, to experience. Great is the Lord and greatly to be praised.
First seek the kingdom of God and everything else will be added unto you.
I pray that the Lord bless you richly with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:54 am
I AGREE, WE SHOULD GO INTO ALL THE WORLD AND TAKE IT BACK FOR JESUS. HE COMMISIONED US TO DO SO. HE GAVE THE CHILDREN OF ISREAL AN ORDER TO GO IN AND TAKE CANNAN. GOD OWNS THE WHOLE EARTH AND TOLD US TO TAKE DOMINION. THAT INCLUDES THE MARKET PLACE,POLITICS, GOVERNMENT,SCHOOLS,AND THE AIR WAVES PLUS MUCH MORE. STOP THINKING CARNAL BUT THINK LIKE THE KINGDOM OF GOD. JESUS DID NOT PLAY WITH DEVIL AND HIS KINGDOM BUT RATHER TOOK AUTHORITY OVER IT. AMEN
October 16th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Pieter,
You have great zeal!
I would add that Paul worked as a tentmaker so as not to be a burden to those he ministered to. He did this to earn money and did not see a dichotomy between having faith and working to earn money to support himself. He also said that if a person will not work, they should not be allowed to eat. Further, he challenges churches to excel in the grace of giving. Obviously, you can’t give what you have not received, and work is a trade of labor for money. It is not dirty, it is not against God, it is not anti-faith. True, as Paul says, some, eager for money, do pierce themselves through with many griefs. To trade goods or services for money, is actually what has allowed many great things to happen, including taking the gospel to the unreached world. It could not have happened otherwise.
I do appreciate your zeal. God is much bigger than we think, and Scripture does suggest (can anyone say Cyrus?) that he works through people.
In Ecclesiastes, it does say that money is the answer to everything. Now, that must be taken in context, obviously. However, James says that if we go to someone who is in need, and do not practically demonstrate the love of God by providing for physical necessities, which requires money, than we are not acting in faith or love. If you give to money to those in need, you are demonstrating faith. Jesus said, whatever you do to the least of these, you have done to me, be it feeding, clothing, visiting in prison, or anything for that matter. I believe we must not divorce the everyday stuff of life from our faith and place a false divide where God did not intend one. To do so, in part, is to reflect Gnosticism, which actually denies that Jesus physically came in the flesh, and denies the goodness and physicality of life, of which business is an offshoot. It also separates us from the power to overcome in life.
Blessings to you my brother!
Dennis
October 16th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Dear Pieter;
I do appreciate your passion in your email. Thank you for writing in again. Allow me to illuminate a couple of thoughts for you… You say there is no reason to have money to go God’s work. Are you saying that Malachi 3:10 about tithing is not for today? Do you have a Bible? If so, you no doubt value it, but it took money to print it, bind it, ship it, store it, retail it, mail it, etc. So there is a place for money.
Secondly, money and mammon are not the same thing. Mammon is a spirit, (a heathen diety) and money is a medium of exchange. Money is neither good nor evil. It is a tool. It can be a tool for good or evil. We make that choice.
Thirdly, the book of Acts tells how the early church in Jerusalem sold all their earthly goods and laid the money at the apostle’s feet. What did they do with all that money? Roast hot dogs? I don’t think so. Then guess what happened. You might have missed this. I know I did. Look at Romans 15:26 … “For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.” Those saints who sold all they had and had everything in common, were well taken care of in the book of Acts - that is until they ran out of money. Then Paul is running around Asia Minor raising MONEY for the poor saints in Jerusalem.
My point is my dear brother, that someone had to have the money to give it and you can be sure it wasn’t the jews that were supporting the Christians, it was the Christians who were working hard in the marketplace, prospering as God enabled, that were giving out of their supply to help the poor saints in Jerusalem.
Hope that helps.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Hello Dennis…
Just read your comments and support your remarks 100%. Well said my brother! Thank you for writing in. Blessings.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Thank you for speaking prophetically to us through your emails….regarding our working in the marketplace!
The fields are white and ready for “harvest”……we are NEEDED where HaShem has us strategically placed!
Thanks again………your emails are a “blessing to tears” for me!
Helen Charest
October 16th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Love this! It is so encouraging to me. Thank you so much.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
I have dealt with this kind of attitude from the misteaching of the church for many years. I know what God has taught me It is ashame that this is such a fear and and and misuse of Gods word….
1.how do we feed the poor and the millions who are sick and dieing
2. how do we build church buildings.
3.how do we support missionaries which are greatly underfunded
4. how do bibles get printed
5. jail ministries get funded
6. fight the unjust issues in goverment
7. shall in go on -i can trust me- have heard my pastors and ministiers ask for money for all these things and more–but condemn Gods Fininical blessings and so doing tie the hands of God and many men and women to fund the kingdom of God here
8. God is the one who gives all men to gain wealth-its Bible
October 16th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
This word is “so” true. I am not yet in marketplace ministry but I believe I am called to the marketplace. God has put a dream in my heart. The Lord led me to your website a while back, I believe so that I can begin to prepare in advance to co-labor with Him in the marketplace. God indeed has equipped us with all we need to be overcomers for the Kingdom!
October 17th, 2007 at 3:08 am
Dear Dennis,
I do appreciate your comments and I am reassured in my spirit that you understand the role of money in the kingdom. Jesus is the King. He alone deserves the glory and His grace is available to those who believe and are obedient. When you have died to the world and all it has to offer, then money become obsolete. By faith God will provide in all the needs that He has for you to fulfill your sonship.
Paul said that we should work so that we are not a burden and that we can give to other. Praise the Lord! It is better to give than to receive.
Lets look at the motive in our hearts if we want to go into business!
(Mat 6:19) “Stop storing up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moths and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal.
(Mat 6:20) But keep on storing up treasures for yourselves in heaven, where moths and rust do not destroy and where thieves do not break in and steal.
(Mat 6:21) For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”
(Col 3:1) Therefore, if you have been raised with Christ, keep focusing on the things that are above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.
(Col 3:2) Keep your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on the earth.
(Col 3:3) For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
(Col 3:4) When Christ your life is revealed, then you, too, will be revealed with him in glory.
(Col 3:5) So put to death your worldly impulses: sexual sin, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry).
Let us therefore not fall into idolatry. Examine yourself and identify the motive of your heart. We cannot make money for God - to do His work. NO! All the Gold and silver belongs to Him in any way. If he wants you to manage resources on His behalf, then He will put you in that position.
Many are called to fullfill the role of Joseph. By grace the Lord has put him in charge of all the money in Egypt, but it was not his. He was only the custodian. His desire was to serve God and to be obedient.
Let us first seek Him and His righteousness and then all other things will be given to us. I pray that the Lord bless you and keep you. That His hand is upon you. That He goes before you in all that you do!
October 17th, 2007 at 8:00 am
I have been reading the comments. And my concern is that a lot of people think it is always going to be easy and we will always be blessed and God will not spare us in calamity.
God Does Not Always Spare Calamity
In Jeremiah 32:36 is about this kind of sustaining grace, and holds the key to why we are alive today after many years of trials. Jerusalem and God’s chosen people are in darkness and distress. And it is God himself who has ordered it so. Look at verse 36: “Now therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel concerning this city of which you say, ‘It is given into the hand of the king of Babylon by sword, by famine, and by pestilence.’” That’s what they say about it. And it is true. Grace has not spared them this calamity. Nor will the grace of God spare you your appointed calamity.
But what they say about God’s chosen ones is not the last word. God has the last word. And it is a word of grace. Verse 37: “Behold, I will gather them out of all the lands to which I have driven them in My anger, in My wrath, and in great indignation; and I will bring them back to this place and make them dwell in safety.” So God declares that he has ordered the trouble and pain. “I have driven them” to these foreign lands. And he declares that he himself with deliver them and bring them back to himself and to their land. In other words, sovereign grace will eventually triumph over the calamity.
How Can We Be Sure of the Triumph of Grace?
How can we be sure of this triumph of grace? If God is a God of justice who can send Israel into devastating exile where many are lost because of their sin and disobedience, then how can we have confidence that this will not happen to God’s chosen people today—the church, the bride of Christ, the true Israel, you and me, who have been called into the fellowship of his Son? It is one question to ask: why have your endured for years? But an even more urgent question is: how can we be sure that grace will triumph for you and in our own lives in the future? How can you be sure that grace will sustain you to the end in the faith and holiness that brings you safe to heaven?
That’s what the rest of this text is about. The answer is: sustaining grace for God’s chosen people is sovereign grace. That is, sustaining grace is omnipotent grace. It is grace that overcomes all obstacles and preserves the faith and holiness that brings us home to heaven. This is our only sure confidence for the future. You and I, in ourselves, are utterly fickle and unreliable. If we were left to our own powers to persevere, we would make shipwreck of our faith, it is sure. This is why the saints have prayed for centuries,
O to grace how great a debtor
Daily I’m constrained to be!
Let thy goodness like a fetter
Bind my wandering heart to thee:
Prone to wander, Lord I feel it,
Prone to leave the God I love;
Here’s my heart, O, take and seal it;
Seal it for thy courts above.
October 17th, 2007 at 8:18 am
Now the rest of the story.
How Great Is God’s Desire to Do You Good?
Jeremiah 32:41
God, yes God, rejoices to sustain you and he rejoices with all his heart and with all his soul. Now I ask you, not with any sermonic exaggeration or rhetorical flourish or with any sense of overstatement at all—I ask you, I challenge you, can you conceive of an intensity of desire that is greater than a desire empowered by “all God’s heart and all God’s soul”? Suppose you took all the desire for food and sex and money and fame and power and meaning and friends and security in the hearts and souls of all the human beings on the earth—say about six billion—and you put all that desire, multiplied by all those six billion hearts and souls, into a container. How would it compare to the desire of God to do you good implied in the words, “with all his heart and with all his soul”? It would compare like a thimble to the Pacific Ocean. Because the heart and soul of God are infinite. And the hearts and souls of man are finite. There is no intensity greater than the intensity of “all God’s heart, and all God’s soul.”
And that is the intensity of the joy he has in sustaining you with sovereign grace: “I will rejoice over them to do them good . . . with all my heart and all my soul.”
October 17th, 2007 at 8:21 am
Hi Kern… I was wondering if you would weigh in on this one. Thanks for investing your heart to write in. The vast majority of folks reading these blogs are in business and have no misconception about things always being easy. They know better. I do believe God blesses what He ordains. Always. If we are working in the same field with the Father, we can expect His goodness to encompass us always, even in the midst of great difficulty. It’s in getting through the difficulties and setbacks that we have opportunity to grow into “sons”.
October 17th, 2007 at 8:45 am
Amen Michael. Through the difficulties and setbacks is how we grow.
And we need to remember “I will rejoice over them to do them good . . . with all my heart and all my soul.” Jeremiah 32: 41. Oh, what comfort, What a God.
October 17th, 2007 at 9:14 am
We are transformed into the image of Christ…
How blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven, and glory in the highest heaven! Glory to God in the highest, and peace on earth to people who enjoy his favor!
Rev 18:1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was made bright by his splendor.
Rev 18:2 He cried out in a powerful voice, “Fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen! She has become a home for demons. She is a prison for every unclean spirit, a prison for every unclean bird, and a prison for every unclean and hated beast.
Rev 18:3 For all the nations have drunk from the wine of her sexual immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality with her. The merchants of the earth have become rich from the power of her luxury.”
Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you don’t participate in her sins and suffer from her plagues.
2Co 6:15 And what agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are the temple of the living God, as God has said, “I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.”
2Co 6:17 Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you
2Co 6:18 and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.
Christ in you and Christ through you.
October 17th, 2007 at 9:47 am
Hello all,
A lot of energy around this topic. This morning I came across this verse:
“Of what use is money in the hand of a fool, since he has no desire to get wisdom?” Proverbs 17:16
This is implying that if we have wisdom, there is use, and good use, with money in our hands. As Michael said, money is neutral. The love of money is not. It is who one is in their character, in their heart, and that is a growth process as well, a progressive one. If God waited until we were fully mature before He blessed us, no one would get blessed. He gives us what our character can handle at the time it seems, most of the time, and sometimes more, sometimes less, to break our dependency on “stuff” as our primary source, so that He becomes our primary source. He who can be trusted with little, can be trusted with much. We are also called to be faithful with worldly wealth, so we can be entrusted with true riches. Paul also said that God gives us all things for our enjoyment. You cannot enjoy something if you have such a grip on it because you think your life depends on it. Truly, there is more joy in giving than receiving, and I believe that in part it is because it breaks the everlasting stranglehold of keeping what we have, and therefore closing our hearts and hands to God and what He could give us in addition. It is living by heaven’s economy, where there is no lack, and we can laugh joyfully as we give away what we have, under God’s direction, because our hope is in God and His supply to us, and not the meager amount we have in our hand.
Pieter, I must respectfully disagree with you that we have no need of money. No need to depend on money and its fickleness (”see to it that no one puts their trust in riches, which are fleeting, but in the living God” - Paul to Timothy). Without getting into semantical issues, we do need money. It is a God-ordained means. Consider Jesus, who “needed” money in one sense, to pay his taxes. He told Peter to get the fish and the money was in it for both his and Peter’s. Peter still had to do the work of gathering the fish (his primary occupation, by the way) in order to pay his taxes.
Blessings,
Dennis
October 17th, 2007 at 9:48 am
Mike,
Thanks for your amazing insights. This is valuable and tangible information. It sems that not everyone is like-minded on this issue which is a good thing, how fun would life be if everyone always agreed?
Anyway, just wanted to throw this in the mix….the scriptures DO NOT SAY that money is the root of all evil…IT DOES SAY that the LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil. Huge difference there. Jesus clearly stated that you cannot put money before God (for that would be like trying to serve two masters).
Pieter points to scriptures that teach about the danger of loving money more than God however Jesus also taught about the importance of wages and how to handle them even more than teaching about faith, healing or any other topic for that matter because He knew how evil & greedy men’s hearts can be on this matter. Jesus came to show us the way and teach about the things that matter in our lives while we are HERE ON EARTH. Jesus was never poor or lacked anything, He had his own treasurer and if He needed finances He could obtain them through a fishes mouth.
Jesus does NOT want any of us to be poor. We are to reflect His image & likeness which is love, faith and abundance in every area of our lives. If someone has a need, we as Christians should be on the ready to answer any need even helping people financially. When people came to Jesus in great need, you will find that He first provided for thier physical needs to prepare them to receive spiritually, in other words He fed the masses physical food before spiritual food. People today are the same, they needs thier needs met first and then they will be open to hear the gospel.
Did you ever try to preach to someone starving or on the verge of losing
thier home? Is our advice to be…”"just have faith and God will provide?” NO. We need to help financially and then minister…this is one reason why money is important in doing God’s work here and now. When we help others physically, spiritually & emotionally, it is the same as providing for Jesus so we must receive the blessings to be able to provide them.
Matt 25:34-40
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
KJV
Michael, looking forward to more on “sons in the marketplace”.
Ron
October 17th, 2007 at 10:07 am
Dennis, it is true we need money but how much is enough. That is the question. How much stuff do we need? Most of us here in America have way to much stuff and it interferes with out ability to worship God. To desire God above everything else. Even prosperity. We must worship God for who He is not what He can do for us. I recommend a great book called “God Is The Gospel” by John Piper.
We must remember we are not citizens here on earth but citizens in heaven. Many, not all, Christians live as if the world was their home. It is not, it is for a little while we suffer and then to be taken to our real home, heaven.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:23 am
“sons in the marketplace, (mature believers) who know they are anointed, to walk this out . . .” - the key here is the phrase “who KNOW they are anointed”. So many Christians walk around not knowing who they are in Christ! Isaiah 43:10 says: “. . . that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.” We are indeed the anointed (children of the KING) and need to step out in faith and BELIEVE GOD! God has blessings for us that we will not see unless we step out in faith and BELIEVE HIM!
October 17th, 2007 at 10:35 am
Kern,
I’d been actually thinking about our citizenship this morning and how it is in heaven. Truly I agree with that. I think what I fail to forget, and I think some others may as well, is that we will be rewarded for eternity based on how we live here on the earth. I agree money is not our end-goal. Conformity to the image of Christ is, which is also the same as saying becoming His disciple (it is enough for the disciple to be like his master). I am now beginning to see my profession as a primary place of my discipleship to Jesus. Dallas Willard has said this in many of his writings, I’ve have struggled to work this out in my understanding and Michael’s info as well as others is helping bridge the gap for me.
I think at times we fail because we take the call to be in the world, but not of it, in a wrong way sometimes. The word “world” in the New Testament is often translated from the Greek word “cosmos,” which means a world system. We are not called to operate according to the world’s system, e.g., you love me first, and then I’ll love you (did not Jesus comment on that?). Instead, we are called to love those who do not love us, i.e., operate according to the kingdom of God, live as Jesus did (”I have left for you an example to follow”). Because of that wrong thinking, we can divorce ourselves from living in the world, where we are called to be. As Jesus said, go out into all the world and make disciples. At times I know I have withdrawn because of the wrong “in the world, not of of it” thinking, instead of going. The kingdoms of this world SHALL become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ!
Dennis
October 17th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
I found this Scripture also today in Job, verses 24-28
“If I have put my trust in gold or said to pure gold, ‘You are my security,’ if I have rejoiced over my great wealth, the fortune my hands have gained, if I have regarded the sun in its radiance or the moon moving in splendor, so that my heart was secretly enticed and my hand offered them in a kiss of homage, then these also would be sins to be judged, for I would have been unfaithful to God on high.”
Job had great wealth and indicated he had gained a fortune by his work. Elsewhere in the chapter he talks about caring for the widow, the fatherless, those needing clothing, etc. He both had great wealth and he shared great wealth. This shows one can have a clean heart, evidenced by the good works James about, and have great wealth at the same time, gained by the works of one’s hand (and ultimately from God.)
Blessings,
Dennis
October 17th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
My typing leaves something to be desired. In the last sentence, after “James” and before “about” should be the word “talks”. The good works James talks about .
Dennis
October 18th, 2007 at 9:07 am
What about the Parable of the Talents in Matthew 25? That not only demonstrates we can have wealth, but that we should steward it wisely and multiply it.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:40 am
Not everyone will have wealth Lorisa, not everyone. But we are all called to suffering.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:48 am
Kern,
I’m not sure I understand. I never said everyone would have wealth. I was simply pointing out that it’s Biblicly okay to have wealth if it’s stewarded correctly.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Lorisa,
And I am just saying that it is not God’s plan for some to have wealth. Some will live in poverty until they get to heaven. Yes, it is Biblical ok to have wealth for some b ut not everyone and we must not pursue it. We must be content. We must set a standard of living and live on it and when surpluses come, we must ask God who He wants us to give it to.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
I concur with all of what you said, Kern. I responded in haste to what I perceived as a chastisement of my first post. Please forgive me.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Forgiven. But I did not take it as mean spirited. I think it is great that Christians can discuss things and not get personal. Iron sharpens Iron.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
That’s very kind of you, Kern. It was never meant mean spirited.